Tuesday, January 02, 2007

Holy of holies!

There's something i don't understand,Why non Muslims aren't allowed in Mekka?Is it because they are anti-Islam and infidels and may want to destroy it?In surat al Feel(the elephant) god says that no one can do anything to the Kaaba(the black sacred cube that Muslims turn around)because he is protecting it and all Muslims know the story of the birds with the stones(tarmehom behagarten men segeel) so if god takes full responsibility,why the fear then?Is it because non-Muslims are not clean(nageseen) is it religion what makes someone pure and clean?didn't god create the earth for all humanity?how do you make it a territory for a group of people because of their faith?Where's the sense in that?If anyone knows a LOGICAL answer,go and and say it.
The president of Libya said that it's OK for Christians and Jews to go around the Kaaba if they want to,for the first time i agree with that man on something,because simply if Muslims are able to access any religious place in the world,the others do too.

23 Comments:

Blogger Right Wing said...

The Muslims seem to be the least tolerant of religions. They want people to constantly bend over backwards for them yet they do not respect any other religions. We are told by the Koran that we are basically no better than animals yet they want us to open up our lives for them. Go figure.

3:14 PM  
Blogger spellz said...

I'm a muslim, I have nothing against any other religion to enter any holy place including Mekka, I guess at the time of Muhammed pbuh there were jews living arround the place, but why should anyone wanna go to Mekka? I mean rather than muslims, I dont know for me I dont find a gr8 urge to visit the vaticans may be I wanna go coz I like the churches architicture nothing more...

+Nages= really unclean in Islam.. I mean a person who doesnt shower or washes (Al wodoo2). and othe pple are allowed to enter holey Islamic places "Nobody will prevent u if u wanted to enter a mosque I guess"...

+ kon eno Mekka is under the rule of punch of intolerant lunatics who see and interpret verses of Quraan the way they wanna.. that doesnt mean all muslims are intolerant lunatics...

u know wat this world needs. pple to live in peace together without insulting eachothers...

It hurts me when I see other people insulting my religion or my pple coz i never did tat to anyone :(

Now I'm going out, if u allow me I'll come back and comment on ur other posts...

2:41 AM  
Blogger Pharaoh said...

Spellz:
Thanks for your visit,first of all,i didn't ask you what do you thinkA lot of Muslims share your opinion and a lot not either,why don't you take a small experience ,ask your friends what do you think about non-Muslims visitng ka'aba?I conducted the same study online and the results were astonishing.What i wanted from this post is only the reason why what you call(lunatics) do it?and let me tell you something from 10 years in Europe nobody gave a rat'a ass about Islam or Muslims or what they are doing,people are not attacking your religion(and not insulting)because of the horrible things they hsve been seeing from Muslims.France was generous with Muslims all the way and how do they respond by being isolated,refuse to integrate,firing cars,violence against police,etc,you'd say because of their bad conditions?and why didn't they do that in their countries?was they living in luxury?Why would anyone attack or insult your religion if it's good?the good religion speaks for itself,you'd say these people don't know the real Islam.i guess going in marches with banners like (behead who insult Islam) or (Islamic Holocaust is coming) is enough for people to know how tolerance your religion are.People live in Europe and enjoy freedom and good living standards and only Muslims think how can Islam dominates the UK.when it comes to Muslims it's not about humanity and living together,it's all about religion.

7:19 AM  
Blogger Right Wing said...

Pharoah:
Great response to spellz. You said what I was thinking, only better.

12:28 PM  
Blogger spellz said...

It's always a pleasure to visit other blogs and I must thank u for visiting mine...

Dont blame a religion for what its pple doing...
Well I thought that uprising in france was at the poor areas in paris and muslims and non-muslims were in it + though I'm against violance as a solution france wasn't that generous with muslims or other immigrants...

u know sometimes I think exactly like as any religion is the reflection of its pple buut when I remember the first muslims the Andalus and the civilization they brought and how all relgions lived freely whre Europ was living in the dark ages where the Church was controlling everything or when I remember when the jews where living freely in our country before the 50s ...

when I remember that one of the arabic rulers refused to pray in a church coz he didnt want pple to turn it to a mosque after him... when I remember that Mohammed Married a christian Egyptian woman and he never asked her to turn to a muslim "she became a muslim later".

When I remember all the tolerance and love.. and when I see those pple representing our religion now and how the Wahabi weird thoughts are affecting the pple...

I see something really wrong... blv me it's not the religion it's the culture and the poverty, I blv that every nation have its good pple and bad pple "I do blv in standerd deviation curve" ...
and as u I hate what some muslims do coz islam aint that superficial it aint about Hijab it's a way of life...
and yes 10 years in Europe nobody gave a rat's a** about Islam or Muslims or what they are doing...
Till the blessed Americans Funded Ben Laden and the others to fight Russia in Afghanestan and Sheshnia "u sure remember the cold war and how was Russia the worlds enemy no1 back then"

and I guess in every religion or a society there are extremists who explain the religion or any thoughts in a very agressive way... it's just those extremists didnt find a big country like America to fund them to spread there ideas on nations (the young arabs) with no education no money and no hope of life whre religion is there only hope and death is better than life imagin if someone gave them money and convinsed them that if they did that they will go to heaven where they will find everything they were deprived from in life...

U know I'm not at all invite u to know about islam or even love it "it will be a pleasure though lol" but we should try to find a way to stop that madness...

and dont tell me fighting and insulting "i dont mean u" will solve the problem... coz as u know in physics
"every action has a reaction equal to in force and opposit in direction"
So why instead of fighting pple start helping the poor and trying to improve there life and education rather than helping dictators as Hosney and others to suck those pple blood and make them hate their lives more...
u know I dont think they will change their opinion like suddenly... we just try to help... blv me pple just need a guide not another religion to be tolerant...

omigod I propably recorded the longest comment ever...

Commenting on ur previous post too " My ex was Morrocan and he adores Egyptians he tells me that all the pple thre love our accent and always try to talk like us... I also have an algerian frnd who loves Egypt too"
see dont hate a whole nation for somebody

2:58 PM  
Blogger Pharaoh said...

Spellz:
The people you are talking about are the majority of Muslims,France hasn't been generous to immigrants?at least they give them social support that people don't get in your country,in Europe if you are educated and are good at your position you are equal to the french,we know that in most fulf countries foreigners take higher salaries than other Arabs even if they are the same,so don't please talk about generosity as i lived here and there and know how it looks like.Can i ask you a question?What was the Andalus before Islamic occupation?wasn't it a European country like the other?that means they have the right to let the church stay a church because the country was originally CHRISTIAN before Islamic occupation,in Afghanistan the people there turned three Buddha statues into rubble because statues are HARAM and this is a heathen religion,why didn't you mention that?or you are only upset because they refused to turn a church into a mosque,in Turkey people turned a big church into a mosque and nobody talks,in Egypt lots of synagogues turned to mosques and it's so fine with people.Dark ages in Europe?that's true but the European realized that and found the secularism is the solution unlike Muslims who think that Islamic law is the best and can be applied as it's god order.Do you think Islam is better than Christianity or any other religion?The dark ages you talked about are now seen in Saudi,Iran and Afghanistan,the dark(middle)ages are now in the 21th century because of Islam,And don't you say this is wahabi or whatever,because as i talked about my last post about shari'a a lot of people agree on that law and find it a perfect way of life!America used the Islamic background of holy Jihad to achieve its goals it's wonderful to find some people to sacrifice themselves for them!Is it because of the poverty and ignorance?and what made them like that?aren't you Muslim Arab leaders?People search everyway to have some freedom in Europe that you think is attacking your great religion for no reason.Islam isn't that superficial and not about Hijab and stuff?So what is it about?There are extremism in every religion,this is true,but in what religion have we heared that woman has to cover her face?The churches of the dark ages are all examples of fine architcure,In Islam no statue,no paints,no drawings,would my faith be affected with a statue?what's the hell is that?Islam extremism is beyond any other religion,do you consider your self a moderate muslim?would you let any one question your religion or your prophet?In America hundreds of shows that question christianity and if juesus really existed or not?Can a show like that be made about Islam without Muslims outrage like a bunch of barbarians?Do you believe that other faiths will get into heaven if they are not Muslims and even if they are better than a lot of Muslims?(So why instead of fighting pple start helping the poor and trying to improve there life and education rather than helping dictators as Hosney and others to suck those pple blood and make them hate their lives more)that's a question you should ask yourself!!!!in Somalia all islamists want is the power in an already very poor country,from the very first begining Muslims like power so as they can humilate and control people as we see now.did Taliban gave a shit about poor people of Afghanistan or just focused on fighting anyone!did MB brotherhood in Egypt care about 1000 Muslims who died in the ferry or people who are tortured everyday?they care about Hijab and if a movie shall be banned or not,because these are Muslims want power to control people lives not to help them,to kill creativity,have you ever heared of Jesus or Moses have an expedition to spread his religion.we have never knew of a jesus to be a leader,only Islam used this way to spread the religion and despite all this ,Christianity still has the largest population and by the way i am not Christian ,i am just posing some facts and differences.
And by the way,I don't care what your ex-said,we all Arabs put our masks in front of each other or maybe he wanted to get to you,i don't know,but i am telling you what a polish friend told me about what the teacher said in a class full of people of different nationalities,so i am not bluffing and i didn't judge Morocco or any other country,i am telling you about the general Arab attitude and how much hatred they have even for each other,so i don't judge countries as i believe good and bad are everywhere,but for a teacher to say that in a class for people who don't know anything really worth mentioning.

3:49 PM  
Blogger spellz said...

yanhar abyad aih da:D

Yalla
1- Don't talk to me about anything happening now
2- I myself question my own faith, I question anything, I spent like a year talking to a chistian preacher about christianity and islam I'm planing to read about judism and buddism I read a book aboout the Baha'i faith and I'm planning to read about atheism when I have time, I like reading about religions and ways of life in general... I'm even going to read old shari'a books and more books about islam

3- When I was in Germany the southerns were too generous to me but I had a very bad experience with the northerns and they called me bad names without any reason

4- I have nothing against france my frnds aunt is married to a french man and I know a french guy and they r nuetral to me... but what I know is that the poor immigrants are really suffering to blend in the french society

5- Islam is a religion and not a country to occupy and islamic archetecture is great and most of the chrches in portugal and spain were originally mosques built during the islamic Era...
Oh no Islamic architecture is amazing havn't u entered any old mosque?

6- the pple who turned churches into mosques in Turkey are the same pple who took all the good workers and scientests from Egypt to work in Turkey "the ottamens" and left us living in the dark all those years..

7- Egyptian Syagoges turned to be churches? please excuse my ignorance and remind me of some.

8-and please remind me of any monument of pharonic statues which was broken during the islamic era in Egypt be4 u speak about Afghanestan.

9- the church I was talking about was in jurusalem or beth lahhem.

10- we have a cleare statement from our prophit that we should keep all the churches and other temples on their statues and never to touch them.

11- covering face isnt even in Islam... it was in biduin arabic culture and they islamized it based on weak explanations of some verses...

12- I want u to read history to tell me when was the last time that muslims really made by islamic Sharii'a to judge it... for my knowledge the last time they actually applied Islam was like 600 yrs ago or even more...
And don't tell me pple were poor coz of the muslim presidents " as I know our Egyptian rules are french in origin"

13- I know ur not a chis or mus or a jew I saw ur profile....

14- u know what u r kind of right in the faces thing, some of my frnds hate arabs "Gulf pple" and some hate the north africans "football causes" and I guess they feel the same, he didnt have to lie to get me lol... simply I knew lot of Arabs and they didnt share the same opinion of the teacher u talked about...



Good night

4:44 PM  
Blogger Egypeter said...

Very Very well said fadfada!! Why is it you can see so clearly when most other Egyptians are so blind???

I hope you are able to spread your message. God bless you!!

4:48 PM  
Blogger أحمد مختار عاشور said...

بوست هايل يا فرعون و فكرة ممتازة
انا اول مرة اعرف رأى القذافى فى الموضوع ده...الرئيس الليبى ده فيه حاجات كتير بقت تشدنى ليه منها الخبر اللى انت قايله عنه و كمان مؤخرا سمعت انه هيستفز امريكا و باقى المقاطيع العرب و يعمل تمثال لصدام بجوار تمثال عمر المختار

تحياتى لمن اهدانى معلومة جديدة

4:53 PM  
Blogger Pharaoh said...

Spellz:
2:i am glad to know that you like reading but you have to knoe that certain Islamic books aren't available here as they are considered anti-Islamic and you can't also have Torah here,You can have the old Testimony but this is sure not all Judaism are about.and before you read about other religion question yours first which is sure hard thing to do here as you can't have enough resources and Sheikhs ain't of any help for sure.
3-people in Germany called you bad names for no reason,well most people don't feel easy around Muslims and the REASONS i've mentioned before.
4-French immigrants are in a problem but people there feel they are in these problems because they are Muslims,as muslims adore the conspiracy theory,France is any other country which has employment problem and poor areas problem but it can't be compared with Egypt for example,but people don't fire and riot here because(you know the reason)
5-Islamic architectur is cool and nice,but what about the statues?do you know that it's not ok to have people drawn in school books,do you know the the greatest musicians came from the churches like the Vivaldi,does Islam has anything to do with music except banning it and saying it's haram?
6-Thought the great efforts Turkey makes to kep the country secular ,it doesn't seem to work and Islam and secularism can't go hand in hand.and they are actually rivals.
7-Egyptian synagogues in Mansoura and synagogue el ostaz in mahala were both turned into mosuqes.
8-I am talking to you about what's actually happening,and to know why there were busy not to destroy the statues,check out why:http://www.rezgar.com/debat/show.art.asp?aid=81408
10-It's great you have such statement,but what about not touching their necks?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KduXSQTK5Oc
11-Maybe you are right,but in what religion was covering the face a matter of discussion,Are there Muslims covering their faces or not?didn't an imam of a mosque wanted DR.Soad Saleh be killed for saying that Nikab is not mandatory,you are saying your point of view,not theirs.
12-when was the last time.......,guess what?it will be TODAY!! after friday prayer which is a sacred thing Saudi Arabia do everyweek with the presence of a huge mob. that want to satisfy its sadism,People i talked with in Egypt want the law to be Islamic,and most Muslims do too,and it's actually applied in some countries as i've mentioned before.
13-Good.
14-As i said,not all people are the same .there are people who believe in Arab solidarity,but i am telling you what i've heared as well and my point was that not to judge whom to like by their race or religion,i thought Arabs only hate the (others) but it wa amazing to find they hate people from the same team as well.

5:33 PM  
Blogger spellz said...

2- may be u r right... but I'll try to find and read, just wish me to get rid of my laziness and read

3- racism was in Europ be4 Islam was questioned "ask the jews"
in every part in the world there must be racists... " whats that : pple dont feel easy in a muslim company that was racist am sorry... coz pple should know the person first then hate or love him!!"
4- I didnt get ur point.. u mean that if their was freedom in Egypt pple will go and burn the streets?

5- Just give me a verse in Quraan that forbid music or drawing and I will agree with u...

6- I don't understand the relation between wat I was telling u and wat u replied...

7- I'll take ur words as truth... aren't synagogues places for woreshipping? where are the pple who are woreshipping to leave the synagogues for them... they all left Egypt...

8- That was totally biased... Coz Egypt was under the roman occupation and the Egyptians were prosecuted firsty coz they were christians and then coz they weren't catholic later on... or why the Monastaries wre made baq in the roman's Era... and I guess the war wasnt on Egypt it was on the romans whome were prosecuting the Egyptians and Attacking the muslims in other places... + if christians were prosecuted or killed there would be no christians in Egypt now "as what happened in Spain where muslims were tortured killed prosecuted and forced to leave their religion (that's why there are no muslims in spain)"...

10- I couldnt watch the video an error occured and I'm glad it happened "dont mock ok... in the begining they said the scenes were brutal and I can't handle watching such scenes".... but anyways I know that Indonisia is one of the most moderate islamic countries and all the pple have their freedom to practise their religion... the preacher I knew was preaching in Indonisia he didnt mention being abused coz of his work... "well I'm not sure of that"

11- I guess u forgot to mention that Dr Soad Saleh is a Dr in Shari'a and she is teaching in Al Azhar university... I guess she's is the headmaster of one of the faculties"... so when she says it's not mandatory she has proves on that from Quraan and Sunna.

12- Huh?!!

14- Some French hate Italians and som English hate french and some Polish hate Germans, Yet they r in the same "EU"... don't be amazed hate is a normal human nature...

15- you know what is the problem; pple mix between islamic spirtualy, islamic laws, muslim pple, muslem emperors and muslem countries... u just judge the whole package without looking at the core of the problem...

16- Islam ain't a brain washer... islamists who are agressive are aressive with or without islam it's just their human nature... and zats applied on anyother thing...

Yalla bel marra"as not to annoy u in all ur posts"

"al mazhab al hanafi" allows muslims to learn about magic to prtect themselves against witch craft and black magin... and they say zat a good muslem can protect himself by quraan and so..

ur young relative said that Harry Potter is Haram?!.. are u serious?!
what are those pple teaching young children...

8:22 AM  
Blogger Pharaoh said...

Spellz:
People to some extent go in marchs here and an attack on a police station took place in Alexandria because injustice is so hard to take for a long time and the Arabic injustice is at its finest,(coz pple should know the person first then hate or love him!!")and do Muslims do that?in our communities the first thing the people ask about is the religion and they treat you accordingly and it's not my problem if you don't believe that.In Iran people are pissed off because of the Islamic law and go to marchs every now and then,if Islam is so perfect,why are they pissed off then?
(Just give me a verse in Quraan that forbid music or drawing and I will agree with u)A lot of fights took place between students and staff in art schools here in Egypt because students believe it's hara,Muslims never contributed in anything regarding fine art or music,why?they didn't have time?they took care of more important stuff?i don't think so it's all about their Islamic backgrounds,can a music be played in a mosque like it does in the churches?does any Muslim believe that msuic is 100% ok.of course not,Muslims do it and believe it's wrong,you will say this is extremism,in what religion was msuic extremism?
( where are the pple who are woreshipping to leave the synagogues for them... they all left Egypt)so what?this is a place of whorshipping,do you say that we should turn all the synagogues we do have now?do you think we should get rid of Egyptian temples because noone whorship in their now as there's no Ancient Egyptians?There's a part of history.In Germany and in America Muslims try to build mosques in areas where there'r a very small minority of Muslims and people object,not because it's a mosque,because it's a matter of number and they said it clear no place of whorship is to be constructed unless there's a sufficient number,In some cities of California there are cities which have mosques and don't have synagogues because Mulims are there and there are no jews though Jews are a very big population in the states.
If you couldn't watch the video here's a picture of what's really happening in Indonesia:http://www.actioninengland.gb.com/muslim_atrocities/ogrish-dot-com-three_teenagers_beheaded_in_indonesia1.jpg
(so when she says it's not mandatory she has proves on that from Quraan and Sunna.)it's good that you know all that.and did you know that A lot of Imams(ahdaro damaha) because she said that nikab is not mandatory.what's that mean other than the violence of Islam?it means that it's a matter of dispute and some people believe in it to the extent that they might kill someone for it,again,in what religion in the 21th century covering the woman's face a matter of dispute???
( u just judge the whole package without looking at the core of the problem)The problem is that Islam had opened the door for violence with a lot of verses --->"من رأي منكم منكرا فغيره بيده. ومن لم يستطع أن يغيره بيده فيغيره بلسانه
so any one who have authoritiy or power will be happy to change it with his hands as the religious authority does in Saudi where it beats up people who don't pray and women who don't cover their faces.
بعثت بين يدى الساعة بالسيف، حتى حديث:يعبد الله وحده لاشريك له، وجعل رزقي تحت ظل رمحي
و في سورة النساء: فأن تولوا فخذوهم و أقتلوهم حيث وجتموهم و لا تتخذوا منهم وليا و لا نصيرا

You mentioned how Christianity brought dark ages to the humanity though Christianity has nothing like Jihad and stuff,so with all these verses you think Islam can offer a better option?and you don't think that Islam is not the core of the problem?
12:Huh what?you don't know that tens of people die every friday in Saudi Arabia with the islamic law?
(Islam ain't a brain washer)So you think that a terrorist was born a terrorist and he wanted to kill himself and a bunch of people because he feet like doing it?Everyday,i see how people turn to very conservative and awful after being life-loving just because he read a book or listened to a tape,Brain washing can be done with anything but to be most influencial,the religion is the tool.
French hate Americans and Americans hate french but noone wishes for America to be removed from the map like Arabs do,hate is everywhere but where does someone kills someone else who has the same religion just because he's Shii or Sunni,only in Arab countries,i saw two guys fighting in front of me because one was shii and the other was sunni.
("al mazhab al hanafi" allows muslims to learn about magic to prtect themselves against witch craft and black magin)ورغم اتفاقهم على حرمة تعلم السحر وتعليمه وممارسته إلا أنهم اختلفوا في تكفير فاعله، فذهب جمهور العلماء ومنهم مالك وأبو حنيفة وأصحاب أحمد وغيرهم إلى تكفيره .

we so not to annoy you here's the full article:
ختلف أهل العلم في عقوبة الساحر فذهب الحنفية إلى أن الساحر يقتل في حالين: الأول: أن يكون سحره كفرا, والثاني: إذا عرفت مزاولته للسحر بما فيه إضرار وإفساد ولو بغير كفر . وذهب المالكية إلى قتل الساحر, لكن قالوا: إنما يقتل إذا حكم بكفره , وثبت عليه بالبينة لدى الإمام , وعند الشافعية: إن كان سحر الساحر ليس من قبيل ما يكفر به, فهو فسق لا يقتل به، إلا إذا قتل أحداً بسحره عمداً فإنه يقتل به قصاصاً


وقد روي عن عمر رضي الله عنه أنه كتب كتاباً قبل موته بسنة " أن اقتلوا كل ساحر وساحرة " قال الراوي: فقتلنا ثلاث سواحر في يوم . رواه أحمد وأبو داود .


أبو هريرة أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، قال: ( اجتنبوا السبع الموبقات، قالوا: يا رسول الله وما هن ؟ قال: الشرك بالله، والسحر، وقتل النفس التي حرم الله إلا بالحق، وأكل الربا، وأكل مال اليتيم، والتولي يوم الزحف، وقذف المحصنات المؤمنات الغافلات ) متفق عليه .
And here's the URL if you think i am making it up:
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/readArt.php?lang=A&id=16904

10:18 AM  
Blogger Egypeter said...

I've been following this debate and I have a few points I'd like to add.

Spellz said:

"That was totally biased... Coz Egypt was under the roman occupation and the Egyptians were prosecuted firsty coz they were christians and then coz they weren't catholic later on... or why the Monastaries wre made baq in the roman's Era... and I guess the war wasnt on Egypt it was on the romans whome were prosecuting the Egyptians and Attacking the muslims in other places... + if christians were prosecuted or killed there would be no christians in Egypt now "as what happened in Spain where muslims were tortured killed prosecuted and forced to leave their religion (that's why there are no muslims in spain)"."

You don't seem to know your Egyptian history very well, do you Spellz? That's ok because 90% of Egyptians I run into don't seem to know the truth behind the history of Egypt...which really really amazes me. What do they teach you in school these days besides the Quran??

First, you said"

"That was totally biased... Coz Egypt was under the roman occupation and the Egyptians were prosecuted firsty coz they were christians and then coz they weren't catholic later on"

There is some accuracy to that comment. Yes, Egyptians were persecuted by the Romans (but ALL Christians were at their time) and yes, Egyptians were also persecuted by the Byzantine Empire (which was more a political than religious dispute). Egypt was under great turmoil when Amr Ibn al-ass came with his army and conquered Alexandria and that is what led to Egypt's swift defeat at the hands of the Arabs. And relations between the occupying Arabs and Egyptians were not bad for several centuries thereafter...at least until the Arabs/muslims were in the majority around the turn of the first millenium.

And then you said:

"as what happened in Spain where muslims were tortured killed prosecuted and forced to leave their religion (that's why there are no muslims in spain)"...

Well, that's because the Spaniards were able to kick out the occupying Arabs and RECLAIM THEIR OWN LAND!! Something that many other people and countries were UNABLE to do, although they TRIED. And another question I have, why is it all Arabs lament the loss of Spain? As if it was their land in the first place? I hate to break it to you, but the Arabs will never reconquer Spain and the Caliphate will NEVER return...as I'm sure you, and most Egyptians, dream of.

Pharaoh said:

"and please remind me of any monument of pharonic statues which was broken during the islamic era in Egypt be4 u speak about Afghanestan."

Did you know Spellz that after a great earthquake destroyed a 13th century mosque occurred that the Sultan of Egypt disassembled the limestone on the Great Pyramid (effectively destroying the appearance of the pyramid) to rebuild his mosque??? This was never done before with any of the occupying forces (Roman, Persians, Bynantines) And what about that fatwa some sheikh put out recently in Egypt forbidding statues, do you remember??? In the glorious country of Egypt of all places???!! That made me laugh...and cry.

Did you know that Egypt, during the time of the Caliphate, was systematically raped of all her food and grain and sent to wherever the capital was? Who do you think suffered? The Egyptians, of course!

There is much much more I can get into...but I hope you get my point.

11:44 AM  
Blogger spellz said...

Dont take a part of a verse and take it out of its meaning

فَإِنْ لَمْ يَعْتَزِلُوكُمْ وَيُلْقُوا إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَ
وَيَكُفُّواأَيْدِيَهُمْ فَخُذُوهُم وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ
I guess now it's understood... It clearly says if they didnt accept peace with u and kept on fighting and killing u go and kill them in every fight u meet them in

Well yea they should know them first I insist : coz I do that and I insist that every persn with mind and Education should do that and coz I blv that my islam
wanted me to do that
" يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَى وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا " سورة الحجرات

Islam also said:
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا يَسْخَرْ قَومٌ مِّن قَوْمٍ عَسَى أَن يَكُونُوا خَيْرًا مِّنْهُمْ وَلَا نِسَاء مِّن نِّسَاء عَسَى أَن يَكُنَّ خَيْرًا مِّنْهُنَّ وَلَا تَلْمِزُوا أَنفُسَكُمْ وَلَا تَنَابَزُوا بِالْأَلْقَابِ

قال كمان

فَبِمَا رَحْمَةٍ مِّنَ اللّهِ لِنتَ لَهُمْ وَلَوْ كُنتَ فَظًّا غَلِيظَ الْقَلْبِ لاَنفَضُّواْ مِنْ حَوْلِكَ فَاعْفُ عَنْهُمْ وَاسْتَغْفِرْ لَهُمْ وَشَاوِرْهُمْ فِي الأَمْرِ فَإِذَا عَزَمْتَ فَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِنَّ اللّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُتَوَكِّلِينَ

Islam never ordered us to change other;s religion we were only ordered to preach
قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ

لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ

وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ

وَلَا أَنَا عَابِدٌ مَّا عَبَدتُّمْ

وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ

لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ
It didnt say I'll kill u to enter ISlam !

How many Synagogues where turned to mosques? lol u r talking like that Hosney is a very good muslim so he listen to Gods words and turned them to mosques
Anyways again their's no verse tell u to turn any temple to a mosque.
I dont care about that debate between art teachers and students I said give me a verse + muslims and arabs in general contibuted in music "who invented 3elm Al maqamat 7egaz and Sega ....etc"
They dont have to be coming from the mosque to be islamic... and mosque aint the same in function as a church but that doesnt mean that some music wasnt Islamic... ask the Andalusian Mowasha7at and other Sufi songs in the love of islam even When mohammed came to Al madina he was rcvd by a song
"Tala3 Al Badro 3alayna"

I dont care about the debate in every religion their is extremism even suicidal attacks weren't a pure islamic invention I blv u remember the Kamikaz in pearl Harbour and I guess u know about the Ku Klox Klan "if I'm goin to use ur logic am going to say I cant imagin that their's a religion that encourage prosecuting of other colors but coz I know that those werent real christians I wont say zat "


من رأى منكم منكرآ
Are other pple with different religions a monkar and I dont know ? I guess that monkar is injustice and all other things that hurts the pple
and I welcome a religion that encourage me to work and change my reality and the bad things that happen in it

I never said that christianity brought dark ages ... I said christian churches in Europ at the Dark ages wasnt good .... by the way As amuslim I'm not Allowed to insult other religions
I blv that islam also respected other religions

قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ

وَإِنَّ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ لَمَن يُؤْمِنُ بِاللّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِمْ خَاشِعِينَ لِلّهِ لاَ يَشْتَرُونَ بِآيَاتِ اللّهِ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلاً أُوْلَـئِكَ لَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ سَرِيعُ الْحِسَابِ

آل عمران

اليوم أحل لكم الطيبات و طعام الذين أوتوا الكتاب حل لكم و طعامكم حل لهم و المحصنات من المؤمنات و المحصنات من الذين أوتوا الكتاب من قبلكم إذا آتيتموهن أجورهن محصنين غير مسافحين و لا متخذي أخدان و من يكفر بالإيمان فقد حبط عمله
Islam also Allowed variety of religion

إِنَّا أَنزَلْنَا التَّوْرَاةَ فِيهَا هُدًى وَنُورٌ يَحْكُمُ بِهَا النَّبِيُّونَ الَّذِينَ أَسْلَمُواْ لِلَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَالرَّبَّانِيُّونَ وَالأَحْبَارُ بِمَا اسْتُحْفِظُواْ مِن كِتَابِ اللّهِ وَكَانُواْ عَلَيْهِ شُهَدَاء فَلاَ تَخْشَوُاْ النَّاسَ وَاخْشَوْنِ وَلاَ تَشْتَرُواْ بِآيَاتِي ثَمَنًا قَلِيلاً وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْكَافِرُونَ

وَقَفَّيْنَا عَلَى آثَارِهِم بِعَيسَى ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَآتَيْنَاهُ الإِنجِيلَ فِيهِ هُدًى وَنُورٌ وَمُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَهُدًى وَمَوْعِظَةً لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ

وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ فَاحْكُم بَيْنَهُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءهُمْ عَمَّا جَاءكَ مِنَ الْحَقِّ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجًا وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَـكِن لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِي مَآ آتَاكُم فَاسْتَبِقُوا الخَيْرَاتِ إِلَى الله مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ

Islam respected christians specially
لَتَجِدَنَّ أَشَدَّ النَّاسِ عَدَاوَةً لِّلَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ الْيَهُودَ وَالَّذِينَ أَشْرَكُواْ وَلَتَجِدَنَّ أَقْرَبَهُمْ مَّوَدَّةً لِّلَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ الَّذِينَ قَالُوَاْ إِنَّا نَصَارَى ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّ مِنْهُمْ قِسِّيسِينَ وَرُهْبَانًا وَأَنَّهُمْ لاَ يَسْتَكْبِرُونَ

Sorry I didt mean the Hanafy I ment the Shafe'i in the magic thing

So at least some of muslims said that we shouldnt kill witches as long as they don't hurt other pple

.................................

To Mr Peter they dont even teach us Quraan in schools they teach us nothing

I kind of dont care wat the khaliphats did coz Egypt wasnt fairly ruled since the Pharoes
Either Christians or Muslims or Even Amon Raa Worshipppers all the same + Egypt as a part of the Islamic emperor Contirbuted in
world's evolution

Excuse me? Spainiards.... ISlam is a religion and not a nationality
I'm confused here I first want to know .... Do u consider me an Egyptian? I mean an egyptian whose her ancestos chose islam or u think I was the Grand-daughter of some Arabic conqueror who occupied ur country
Coz to some extent I feel pissed when they say the word Copts about the Christians coz I blv I was Coptic too... Wat I want to say here that as in spain and Egypt some of the Natives turned to muslims too
Or u wanna tell me that the 60 million muslims in egypt where all arabs and Egypt was a land without pple Except the grand fathers of the 15 million christians that live here?
Sir Don't talk about Egypt till u come and live here and feel the prosecution that both muslims and christians suffer from

And of course I dont wish to reconquer spain... u kinda made me laugh when u said "as I'm sure you, and most Egyptians, dream of."

I only talked about the spanish to prove something + I blv tat as Egyptian christians u should share in building Egypti and changing with us rather than migrating and leaving the country and talking about prosecution while u r million miles away
..................................

To both of u I only entered this Debate not to prove to u that my religion is good or to make u prove that mine is bad I was just clearing a point that after all we r all human
and+ I blv I had my right to clear a point I blv in and defent a religion I charish and love as u have ur right not to love it
I'm sorry I want watch the pictures I can't do that

Guys whether u love or hate my religion I wanna Egypt to live in peace and prosperity... I want us all to share in building it... as they say "the religion for god and the land is for all"


I guess this is the only we r agreeing on here
.................................

Pharoe I'm afraide I wont be able to give u those long comments after that u know Exams and colg and so and so
So as I wont be a pain in the a** to u any more I wish there's no hard feelings between u
Adios

3:50 AM  
Blogger Pharaoh said...

Spellz:
concerning music:
(ما من عبد يدخل الجنة إلا ويجلس عند رأسه وعند رجليه اثنان من الحور العين، يغنيانه بأحسن صوت سمعه الإنس والجن، وليس بمزامير الشيطان). والمقصود بمزامير الشيطان هو ما يزينونه لبني آدم من الملاهي المعازف وآلات الطرب. (فتاوى النساء للشيخ متولي الشعراوي،
And again i am asking you,can music be played in mosques like churches or synagogues?the mosque doesn't have the same function as a church?aren't they both places for whorship?or does whorship in Islam has to be so blunt?

concerning tolerance with other religions:
{يأيها الذين أمنوا لا تتخذوا عدوي وعدوكم أولياء تلقون إليهم بالمودة}
{لَا يَتَّخِذِ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الْكَافِرِينَ أَوْلِيَاءَ مِنْ دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَمَنْ يَفْعَلْ ذَلِكَ فَلَيْسَ مِنَ اللَّهِ فِي شَيْءٍ إِلَّا أَنْ تَتَّقُوا مِنْهُمْ تُقَاةً وَيُحَذِّرُكُمُ اللَّهُ نَفْسَهُ وَإِلَى اللَّهِ الْمَصِيرُ}

{يأيها الذين آمنوا لا تتخذوا اليهود والنصارى أولياء بعضهم أولياء بعض}

(يا أيها الذين آمنوا لا تتخذوا آباءكم وإخوانكم أولياء إن استحبوا الكفر على الإيمان ومن يتولهم منكم فأولئك هم الظالمون) ( التوبة 23)

(ومن يبتغ غير الإسلام ديناً فلن يقبل منه وهو في الآخرة من الخاسرين) (آل عمران 85

(يا أيها الذين آمنوا لا تتخذوا آباءكم وإخوانكم أولياء إن استحبوا الكفر على الإيمان ومن يتولهم منكم فأولئك هم الظالمون) ( التوبة 23

(بُعِثْتُ بالسَّيفِ بَينَ يدِي الساعةِ حتى يُعْبَدَ اللَّهُ وحدَه لا شريكَ له، وجُعِلَ رِزقي تحتَ ظِلَ رمُحي، وجُعِلَ الذِّلَةُ والصَّغَار على مَنْ خالف أمري، ومن تشبَّه بِقَومٍ، فهو منهم)) (زاد المعاد لابن القيم، ج1، ص 7

جاء وفد بني تميم إلى النبي قال خطيبهم، عطارد بن حاجب: الحمد لله الذي جعلنا ملوكاً والذي له الفضل علينا وجعلنا أعز أهل المشرق. فطلب النبي من ثابت بن قيس أن يرد عليهم، فقال: نحن أنصار الله، ووزراءُ رسولِ الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، نُقاتِلُ الناسَ حتى يؤمنوا، فمن آمن بالله ورسولِه منع ماله ودمه، ومَن نكث جاهدناه فى الله أبداً، وكان قتلُه علينا يسيراً، أقول هذا، وأستغفر الله العظيم للمؤمنين والمؤمنات، والسلام عليكم (زاد المعاد لابن القيم، ج2، ص 278)

( لا تبدؤوا اليهود ولا النصارى بالسلام ، فاذا لقيتم أحدهم في طريق فاضطروه الى أضيقه(مسلم والترمذي وابو داوود
So you tell me what kind of society can be built over such hatred and animosity?you'd say that these are the heathers?so what i am free to whorship what i want even it's a tree or a statue and no one should have a problem with that!

(I dont care about the debate in every religion their is extremism even suicidal attacks weren't a pure islamic invention(i never mentioned sucide bombing i am talking about simple things,like face covering,growing beards and all These Islamic things and even if they existed in other cultures,why is it still a matter of discussion in Islam?

(I never said that christianity brought dark ages )Ok,i am telling you it did!!!but Islam is welcoming darker ages,let me ask you again:apart from trinity or there's no god but god,Do you think that Islam is better than Christianity regarding laws and orders?Is there all these contradicted verss in bible?Is there all these hate verses in bible?
لَتَجِدَنَّ أَشَدَّ النَّاسِ عَدَاوَةً لِّلَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ الْيَهُودَ وَالَّذِينَ أَشْرَكُواْ
Have you ever dealt with a jew?you said before that i judge someone by who is he and not by his religion so how come Koran generalize it??most people dealt with jews here and there and noone experienced anything bad from the,the polio vaccine that runs in your blood was invented by a jew and it was offered to the world,
Again:do you believe that other faiths will get into heaven even if they are better than you morally and done good things to the humanity or not and remember the verse:
(ومن يبتغ غير الإسلام ديناً فلن يقبل منه وهو في الآخرة من الخاسرين) (آل عمران 85
Does any Muslim regards anyone by his morals or by his religion?Does any Muslim even regards a lady by her morals or by her veil?
Why Only Islam had to fight to spread the religion,while people believed in Jesus with no fighting?and Moses before?Is there killing and hate verss in koran or not?Why did Abu bakr fought a tribe when it converted from Islam if Islam believes in religious freedom?Do you believe that women and men are equal in Islam?Do you believe all what your prophet says as the fly wing carries a cure when science proved it carres millions of microbes?Do you believe that the black seed is a miracle and is a cure for every diseas even it was proven it does NOTHING.
Do you believe that koran is a mircale by itself because of its marvelous language?if it was a miracle for those people who have the language how can it be a mircale now and we barely know the right Arabic?how can someone french or Chineese understand the miraculous koran if he doesn't know Arabic,does he have to learn Arab to see how a mircale it is?that doesn't make any sense.
My post about Magic involved all religions and i was posting about experience that happened with me.so,i was talking about people prespectives and not from a religious poing of view.
It has always been a thrill to see you here
Good luck with the exams.

5:50 AM  
Anonymous freedomUK said...

Very good discussion.
Why do so many Muslims like to feel they are always being insulted?
In West every one can say what they like within reason. Muslims insult other religions but how many attacks on Muslims are there when non Muslims are called names like "kafir" or "pigs" and you know what?
Muslims need to be strong in their faith and get on with life.
Stop loving to be martyrs, if you only live once, then live good and LET OTHERS LIVE their lives.
GOD does not need your help to persuade others. HE is allmighty, OK?

3:00 AM  
Blogger Nah·det Masr said...

Hi Pharaoh, I didn't know about the conversion of the synagogues in Mansoura and Mahalla, but that's expected saddly! You what the problem is; I think Islam needs people who can think out of the box to reform it! the more I follow discussions, the more I feel so depressed. I started digging the internet for information about my religion, and I was shocked to find that the material we have been taught at school were carefully selected to glorify Islam. I have to admit that there are some good things in Islam (such as banning its followers from drinking alchool, although I would have prefered it to be an advice), but many things do not add up in my view. Anyway, nice post, although I wouldn't go as far as to agree with Qadhafi on anything!

2:15 PM  
Blogger Pharaoh said...

Nah·det Masr:
Thanks for your visit.Minorities in Egypt always interested me,Especially the Jewish community to see why it declined from about 90.000 to only handful of people.
Here's the picture of the only synagogue in a governorate(port said):

before:
http://www.museumoffamilyhistory.com/wit-port-said-1913.htm

and after:
http://www.bh.org.il/names/POW/Lurie.asp

Banning is never a solution for anything wether it's religious or civil,we all do remember when the United States of America banned alcohool and how a lot of families have become rich after smuggling alcohool for years.People in Saudi Arabia find ways to get alcohool even from perfumes and household supplies!and even if they can't they go anywhere to drink it.The Mufti Issued a fatwa that smoking is Haram and though the Egyptians are so goddamn religious they just can't stop it.You have to have the faith in you that you want to be a good peron and helpful to other to make the world a better place,threats and strics banning is of no use anymore,people think that all non Muslims drink,which is not true,i've met a lot of people who don't drink at all,it's all a matter of self control,maybe religion can play a a part,but again not in such strict manner.

5:43 PM  
Blogger USpace said...

Thank you for visiting and for the encouraging comment; great post, it's in and you're linked, thanks!


absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
behead trespassers...

absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
eject potential converts
.

4:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

im muslim and i think that a tower shold be constructed outside makkah city limits so that non muslims can observe the kaaba

10:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding of Kaaba it is not holy just for the people who is muslims now , Kaaba was holy for all the brophets hom came befor mohammed because Islam is the only religion came from allah I mian from adm antil today there is one religion which is Islam , the Prophet Noh came with Islam religion the prophet Ibrahim came with Islam Religion with zabor Book the Prophet Moses came with Islam Religion and his book was the holy torat the prophet jesose came with islam religion and his book was the Holy Bible and the last Phrophet came is Mohammed and his book is the Holy Quran.
evry prophet was sending from Allah to his own people axcepet Prophet Mohammed allah send hem to the all people on the erth and evry one most to follow hem .
My frind Islam is your and my god Allah Religion.
Kaaba is the home of allah and no one have right to visit his home if he dont believe hem.
you will say that you are believe but you follow your self , did you give your silf lettel time to look at the holy quran or try to understand the islam religoin as allah religion , and you have to look to the all binifet came with islam for the humenben example as :
1 - you know your god ( allah ) closly his names and his adjectives and his order you will know many things throuh allah religion which make you reach the unlimited happiness.
2 - in Islam you will got evry thing releted with the daly live , family live , people relations , your buisness ,banking , buying saling , I can siad to you Islam is the Live Full System , but you have to see this by your silfe throuh serching dont look to some moslems rong appliance . because not evry muslems follow islam as what allah asked them to do because mistake cold hapend from any one but Islam the religion of allah Islam the religion of adm ,Noh , Ibraham , Moses , Jesos , Mohammed can not be mistaked.
Islam is essy and clear religion when you know it.
My Email : azzaidia@yahoo.com
please for evry body if some one need serious discussion He can Email me.

Thanks

1:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi All,Im happy to share some info with you all****My brothers,We are all one as seen by his almighty.But what makes one good and pure is the cleanliness.thats what differntiates between a muslim and a non muslim when you talk about visiting Kaaba.Even for a muslim ,Islams teachs him to be clean.If someone knows that a muslim is not clean or has not washed his privates to take off the dirt from his body due to the body fluids,Even he will be prohibited to visit the holy place.No one stops a non muslim from visiting a mosque or any holy place until and unless one is sure that the person is clean.obviously one cant question each and every non muslim if he is clean or not and there is no proof that he is clean,hence making a rule where non muslims are prohibited in such holy places.this is only a step that the place of worship is clean.

Eajaz Khan

7:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why non muslims are not allowed in the makkah? the simplest answer is...its not a tourist attraction!!! even muslims go there for worship not sight seeing. its a place where u find an ultimate sense of serenity and peace and for that certain strict measures have to be taken. non muslim tourists would only be an hindrance and it would be hard to apply conditions upon them that are applied on muslims when they enter the mosque! so why create something that would disturb the spirituality of the place! its nothing to do with nonmuslims bein ifidels or impure or all that stuff. its just the way to control a situation. there are certain etiquettes people have to learn before they enter the mosque and its a must that muslims follow it. if you r not a follower of islam it would be unfair to ask you to follow these rules,etiquettes etc. so why worry? watch on youtube or tv,,there r plenty of images! other than the two holy mosques non muslims can enter any other mosque!

6:49 AM  

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